Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 124

02/16/2007 08:30 AM House FISHERIES


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
08:40:07 AM Start
08:40:28 AM Overview: Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association/adf&g - 2006 Susitna Sockeye Salmon Project[s]
10:06:25 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview: Cook Inlet Aquaculture Assoc./ TELECONFERENCED
ADF&G - Susitna River Watershed
Sockeye Salmon Research
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                            
                       February 16, 2007                                                                                        
                           8:40 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kyle Johansen                                                                                                    
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative Lindsey Holmes                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
OVERVIEW:  COOK INLET AQUACULTURE ASSOCIATION/ADF&G - 2006                                                                      
SUSITNA SOCKEYE SALMON PROJECT[S]                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TRENT DODSON, Fisheries Scientist                                                                                               
Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association (CIAA)                                                                                       
Kenai, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of the CIAA component                                                                
of the affiliated projects, and responded to questions.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
GARY FANDREI, Executive Director                                                                                                
Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association (CIAA)                                                                                       
Kenai, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Responded to association questions                                                                         
regarding the 2006 Susitna Sockeye Salmon Project[s].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DOUG EGGERS, Fisheries Scientist                                                                                                
Region I, Division of Commercial Fisheries                                                                                      
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Presented  the  ADF&G  component  of  the                                                               
affiliated projects, and responded to questions.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JIM HASBROUCK, Fisheries Scientist                                                                                              
Region II, Division of Sport Fish                                                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION   STATEMENT:     Responded  to   departmental  questions                                                               
regarding the 2006 Susitna Sockeye Salmon Project[s].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BOB CLARK, Fisheries Scientist                                                                                                  
Region II, Division of Sport Fish                                                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish & Game, (ADF&G)                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION   STATEMENT:     Responded  to   departmental  questions                                                               
regarding the 2006 Susitna Sockeye Salmon Project[s].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  PAUL   SEATON  called  the  House   Special  Committee  on                                                             
Fisheries  meeting  to  order at  8:40:07  AM.    Representatives                                                             
Johnson  and   Edgmon  were  present   at  the  call   to  order.                                                               
Representative Wilson arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW:    COOK  INLET AQUACULTURE  ASSOCIATION/ADF&G  -  2006                                                             
SUSITNA SOCKEYE SALMON PROJECT[S]                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:40:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
an overview of the 2006 Susitna Sockeye Salmon Project[s].                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:41:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TRENT  DODSON,   Fisheries  Scientist,  Cook   Inlet  Aquaculture                                                               
Association  (CIAA), provided  a brief  history of  the projects,                                                               
developed in 2005 to conduct  investigative work on various lakes                                                               
in the  Susitna River watershed  system.  Proposals  generated by                                                               
the  CIAA,  and proposals  that  were  under development  at  the                                                               
Alaska Department  of Fish &  Game (ADF&G), were integrated  in a                                                               
memorandum of understanding (MOU),  for a collaborative effort to                                                               
complete two,  three year  affiliated projects.   The first  is a                                                               
three  part   project  titled   "Evaluation  of   Sockeye  Salmon                                                               
Production from Lakes in the  Susitna River Watershed."  Part one                                                               
requires  the CIAA  to  collect limnology  samples  from each  of                                                               
seven  study lakes.    The 2006  sample  collection is  currently                                                               
being  completed  by  ADF&G   to  evaluate  whether  limnological                                                               
conditions  in  the  lakes  have changed  since  the  1980's  and                                                               
1990's.   In response to Chair  Seaton, he agreed to  provide the                                                               
data evaluation report to the committee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:44:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DODSON described  second part  of  the watershed  production                                                               
project, being handled by ADF&G:   Conduct hydro acoustic surveys                                                               
of the lakes  to establish estimates of the  population size, and                                                               
mean body  size, of juvenile  sockeye salmon, and  other juvenile                                                               
fish, rearing  in each  lake in  the fall,  and estimate  the age                                                               
composition  of the  juvenile sockeye  salmon  population.   This                                                               
encompasses fish that  have hatched the previous  spring, as well                                                               
as some age one, and age  two, sockeye salmon from prior hatches.                                                               
The  CIAA assists  with the  project's  third part,  which is  to                                                               
evaluate whether survivals from  potential egg deposition to fall                                                               
fry,  and from  fall  fry  to smolt,  are  lower  in these  seven                                                               
rearing lakes compared to other  sockeye salmon stocks.  The CIAA                                                               
is charged with conducting weir  enumeration on the adult sockeye                                                               
salmon, as  well as smolt counts  in the lakes; gathered  data is                                                               
evaluated by ADF&G.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:45:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DODSON presented  the second  collaborative project,  titled                                                               
"Susitna River  Sockeye Salmon Escapement Abundance."   The field                                                               
work on this  project began in July, 2006.   The CIAA established                                                               
weir operations to estimate the  age, sex, and length composition                                                               
of the population  of adult sockeye salmon  migrating upstream of                                                               
Flat  Horn [Susitna  River local],  at  Chelatna, Hewitt,  Shell,                                                               
Judd,  Byers, Stephan,  and  Larson Lakes.    The department  has                                                               
already analyzed this data.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:46:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON  provided two slides [pages  3 and 4 of  the committee                                                               
handout],  to illustrate  the general  watershed  areas, and  the                                                               
specific  sites, used  in  the  study.   He  reported that  ADF&G                                                               
operated  fish  wheel tagging  stations  in  three Susitna  River                                                               
locations:   four at the  Flat Horn  local, two on  Yentna River,                                                               
and three at  the Sunshine Station local.  The  fish were caught,                                                               
marked  with  passive  integrated  transponder  (PIT)  tags,  and                                                               
released  or re-released,  when  recaptured.   The CIAA  operated                                                               
weirs at Byers, Chelatna, Hewitt,  Judd, Larson, and Shell Lakes.                                                               
Timely access was  not gained, to allow a 2006  survey at Stephan                                                               
Lake, however the access permits are  expected to be in place for                                                               
the 2007  season.   Hence, data  for 2006  was reported  from six                                                               
weirs:  four  lakes on the Yentna system, and  two on the Susitna                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:50:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked  what the funding source  was for the                                                               
fish wheel operation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON deferred.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:50:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON  said that Chelatna  Lake is  the largest lake  in the                                                               
system that the  CIAA is monitoring.  He projected  a slide [page                                                               
5],  which provided  the analysis  for the  species tagged;  just                                                               
over 13,000 sockeye salmon, and reported  that 81 of the PIT tags                                                               
were recovered.   In  addition 130 age  and genetic  samples were                                                               
collected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:52:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON requested a description of the PIT tagging system.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON described  how a glass transmitter tag, the  size of a                                                               
grain  of rice,  is imbedded  in  the cheek  of the  fish via  an                                                               
injection device similar to a syringe.   As the fish pass between                                                               
the receiver  antennas, at the  weir site, the encoded  number on                                                               
the tag  is transmitted to a  receiver and recorded for  the data                                                               
base.  The  transmitter can also be "read" utilizing  a hand held                                                               
wand,  which  resembles  a  small   tennis  racket,  or  a  large                                                               
rectangular device  that is  integrated into  the weir  where the                                                               
fish swim through.  In response  to a question, he explained that                                                               
a  radio  tracking  tag  is  larger, with  an  antennae  that  is                                                               
inserted into the esophagus of the  fish.  Detection of this type                                                               
of tag  is accomplished in  a different manner,  utilizing remote                                                               
antennae  receivers  or equipped  aircraft.    The radio  tag  is                                                               
particularly helpful  for detecting the final  spawning locations                                                               
of individual fish.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON reiterated  the two  tagging processes,  clarifying                                                               
the differences.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:54:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON continued,  stating that the CIAA had no  means to tag                                                               
the fish, only  to read the tags.   In order for a PIT  tag to be                                                               
read, the fish must pass within  two feet of a receiver antennae.                                                               
Asked  for   clarity,  he   explained  that   detection  scanning                                                               
techniques  varied between  weirs.   Chelatna,  Larson, and  Judd                                                               
Lakes used  weir integrated  devices, and  at Hewitt,  Shell, and                                                               
Byers  a hand  wand was  employed.   In further  discussion, with                                                               
Chair Seaton,  he explained that the  integrated antennae allowed                                                               
scanning of  100 percent  of the  fish, but  when using  the hand                                                               
wand,  at Shell  Lake,  only 1  PIT tag  was  detected among  the                                                               
70,000 returning fish.   He added that at Shell  Lake 14,000 fish                                                               
returned in one  day, rendering the wand method  ineffective.  It                                                               
is  expected that  an integrated  device will  be available  from                                                               
ADF&G for future use at this lake.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:56:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked if the  weirs were of similar construction, at                                                               
each site.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON explained  that the weirs were similar  in length, 60-                                                               
70  feet, but  the designs  varied  to allow  boat traffic  where                                                               
necessary.   To further  questions, he  stated that  the antennae                                                               
would  be visible  in the  slide of  Larson Lake  [page 10],  and                                                               
responded that the Polyvinyl chloride  (PVC) pipe construction is                                                               
commonly used to allow motorized traffic to pass.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON  provided a series  of six slides, presenting  each of                                                               
the weir sites  individually.  Each slide  provided specific site                                                               
information,  including:   lake  specifications, enumeration  and                                                               
recovery totals,  and a photograph of  each site.  He  began with                                                               
the weir  at Chelatna  Lake [page  5], and  pointed out  that the                                                               
workers  were not  prepared for  the unexpected  flood conditions                                                               
that occurred.   Prevention methods  and weir  design adjustments                                                               
will be  implemented for subsequent  seasons.  Hewitt  Lake [page                                                               
6]  required a  manual gate  to  be installed  for boat  traffic.                                                               
This  lake is  a  popular  northern pike  fishing  local, and  he                                                               
opined  that the  northern  pike may  effect  the sockeye  salmon                                                               
population.     He  reported  that  he   observed  northern  pike                                                               
migrating through  the weir along with  the salmon.  A  hand held                                                               
scanner was used  at this site, and three PIT  tags were detected                                                               
in the 2,500  sockeye salmon that were monitored.   At Shell Lake                                                               
[page 7],  nearly 70,000 sockeye salmon  returned; a surprisingly                                                               
high enumeration for  this lake.  He reiterated that,  due to the                                                               
use  of  the  hand  held  scanning device,  not  every  fish  was                                                               
scanned, accounting for the recovery of only 1 PIT tag.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:01:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  pointed out  that Shell  Lake is  known to                                                               
support a population  of northern pike.  He  asked that, assuming                                                               
the  northern  pike consume  the  salmonids  fry, why  would  the                                                               
sockeye salmon return be at the reportedly high level.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.   DODSON  responded   that   he  cannot   account  for   this                                                               
discrepancy,  and  added that  he  did  not  observe any  of  the                                                               
reported  northern  pike.   Next  year's  sockeye fry  and  smolt                                                               
counts may help to unravel this mystery.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON offered that the Division  of Sport Fish may be able                                                               
to provide  the committee with  an estimate of the  northern pike                                                               
population, to satisfy Representative Neuman's question.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN elaborated  that northern  pike have  been                                                               
blamed  for reduction  of salmon  smolt, in  some areas,  but the                                                               
CIAA data on Shell Lake does not support that theory.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON opined  that the returns would be  greater if northern                                                               
pike predation was not occurring.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:03:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON remembered  that  previous  Shell Lake  escapements                                                               
were lower  than the 2006  count, but the enumeration  method did                                                               
not employ a weir.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DODSON agreed,  and stated  that stream  and aerial  surveys                                                               
were previously used.   One year [unstated],  an estimated return                                                               
of  45,000 sockeye  salmon was  recorded, up  from an  average of                                                               
5,000.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:03:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON  introduced the  slide for Judd  Lake [page  8], which                                                               
yielded 40,000 sockeye salmon, and had  51 PIT tags detected.  He                                                               
explained  that all  of the  weirs were  dismantled early  in the                                                               
season, due  to the college  intern work force needing  to return                                                               
for school.   Henceforth, alternative man power will  be used, or                                                               
interns whose  schedules provide  more flexibility.   Either way,                                                               
he said the  weirs will be manned into September,  as the project                                                               
continues.  At  some sites, the weirs were pulled  within days of                                                               
when  the fish  were tagged  at the  fish wheels;  minimizing the                                                               
possibility for detection.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:04:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DODSON  continued with  Byers  Lake  [page  9], one  of  the                                                               
northern  most lakes.   Approximately  3,000 sockeye  salmon were                                                               
enumerated, of  the 5,000  estimated by ADF&G  to return,  and no                                                               
PIT tags were recovered.  The  weir was located near a state park                                                               
foot  bridge,  and  hikers occasionally  opened  the  weir  gates                                                               
unwittingly.   The weir will  henceforth be located out  of sight                                                               
of the foot bridge.  Although  the weir was erected mid-July, the                                                               
salmon  return  did  not  begin until  mid-August.    The  timing                                                               
information  gained will  be used  to  ensure that  the next  two                                                               
years will be more productive.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:05:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON presented  the final lake surveyed,  Larson Lake [page                                                               
10], reporting  that 56,000 sockeye  salmon were  enumerated, and                                                               
approximately 700  PIT tags, and  one radio tag,  were recovered.                                                               
The slide provided  a photograph of the  integrated tag detector.                                                               
In response  to Chair  Seaton, he  stated that  the fish  did not                                                               
accumulate  behind  the  weir, despite  the  device,  but  passed                                                               
through it in a timely manner.   He described a beaver dam, below                                                               
Shell Lake,  which had detained  the fish, and  once broken-down,                                                               
accounted for  the mass of  14,000 fish  in one day,  passing the                                                               
weir.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:08:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON   inquired  whether  information  on   beaver  dams                                                               
effecting these salmon runs is available.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON deferred.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:08:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON explained the "Summary"  slide [page 11], with a brief                                                               
analysis  of the  available data.   It  provided the  enumeration                                                               
totals, tags  recoveries, and age  data, by location.   Chelatna,                                                               
he pointed  out, has a  population with a "0"  freshwater rearing                                                               
component;  hatching  and exiting  the  lake  in the  same  year,                                                               
returning after 3  years in saltwater.  The  92,051 Yentna total,                                                               
represents  the  ADF&G sonar  count,  contrasting  with the  CIAA                                                               
count of 120,000.  There are  many other lakes in the system, but                                                               
responding  to Chair  Seaton, he  said these  were identified  by                                                               
ADF&G for data collection.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:10:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  for further  clarification on  the                                                               
age data percentages.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON  explained the  reading of  the Chelatna  age samples:                                                               
11% 0.3  indicates smolt that migrate  out of the lake  with zero                                                               
years of freshwater development, and  return after three years of                                                               
salt water maturation;  38% 1.2 indicates smolt  that migrate out                                                               
of the lake after one  year of freshwater development, and return                                                               
after two years of saltwater maturation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  referred to  the diversity  in the  percentages and                                                               
asked what would account for the differences between the lakes.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON responded that, although some  of the lakes are only 4                                                               
miles  apart,  there  are  many  contributing  factors  including                                                               
genetic  trends and  the size  the smolt  have attained  prior to                                                               
entering saltwater.   He  agreed with  Chair Seaton  that factors                                                               
could  also  include lake  depth  and  size, water  quality,  and                                                               
available feed.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:12:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN  noted the  lack  of  chum salmon  in  the                                                               
statistical counts, and stressed the importance of this species.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DODSON  attributed  this  to  timing.   The  weir  work  was                                                               
completed prior to the chum and coho salmon migration.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON suggested  that ADF&G  may be  able to  clarify the                                                               
timing of species migration.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:14:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON presented the final  slide [page 12], which identified                                                               
the Susitna Project  Budget and Funding.  He  explained the three                                                               
year time frame for the  budget expenses; totaling $746,893.  The                                                               
funding  sources were:   CIAA  -  $40,000, Southeast  Sustainable                                                               
Salmon  Fund  -  $210,000,  State of  Alaska  $200,000;  totaling                                                               
$450,000.   The request  to the  state was  for an  allocation of                                                               
$500,000.   The remaining $300,000  could be allocated,  over the                                                               
next two years, to complete the project.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN  explained that  the $500,000,  directed to                                                               
the  CIAA,  is  part  of  a  $1,000,000  grant,  secured  by  the                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna Valley  legislators for this three  year study.                                                               
This   grant   also   includes  $500,000   for   a   "Fisherman's                                                               
Satisfaction Survey."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:17:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  stated that  this study helps  to address  the Cook                                                               
Inlet issue of managing the Susitna  River drainage.  It has long                                                               
been a  concern that  the drainage is  not producing  salmon, and                                                               
issues have  arisen when in-season management  called for closure                                                               
of the commercial fishery.  The  study thus far, indicates a lack                                                               
of accuracy  regarding ADF&G fish count  estimates, and generates                                                               
questions regarding the statistics  the department uses to manage                                                               
this fishery.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:19:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN interjected  that the  Yentna is  a large,                                                               
murky  river,  possibly  effecting  the  accuracy  of  the  ADF&G                                                               
counts.   Additionally,  he provided  previous count  totals, and                                                               
the  commercial  fleets  catch   activity  to  suggest  a  direct                                                               
correlation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON stipulated that the  counts reported in the overview                                                               
clearly indicate  a significant  difference in totals.   However,                                                               
he  opined   that  it  would   be  premature  to   draw  definite                                                               
conclusions.   A  better understanding  should result  when three                                                               
years of data have been collected and analyzed.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN commented  that this is the  purpose of the                                                               
study.   He offered that this  study will not only  enumerate the                                                               
fish  population, but  also  encompasses  genetic studies,  scale                                                               
studies, and a compilation of ten years of previous data.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:21:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARY   FANDREI,  Executive   Director,  Cook   Inlet  Aquaculture                                                               
Association (CIAA),  relayed that  the CIAA request  for $500,000                                                               
was "above and beyond" the  $1,000,000, requested and received by                                                               
ADF&G.  The CIAA was  allocated $200,000, leaving the agency with                                                               
a $300,000 shortfall, to complete the three year study.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON stressed  the importance of the CIAA  aspect of this                                                               
study.  He  opined that the escapement  and limnological studies,                                                               
on each of these lakes,  are necessary components for formulating                                                               
a comprehensive  and effective management  plan.   Observing that                                                               
the  automatic sensors  [integrated detectors]  appear to  be the                                                               
most  effective means  to  detect  the tags,  he  asked what  the                                                               
additional expense would be to have these at each site.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. FANDREI  agreed that the automatic  sensor is a key  piece of                                                               
equipment, particularly when a large  number of fish are present.                                                               
It would  be ideal  to have  one of these  sensors on  each weir,                                                               
however,  at a  set up  cost of  $3,500 each,  it is  out of  the                                                               
CIAA's budget realm.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON clarified  the need  to  implement four  additional                                                               
integrated  tag detectors,  and stated  that it  would be  "penny                                                               
wise  and pound  foolish"  not to  investment  in this  essential                                                               
equipment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:27:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON inquired  what the  "life" expectancy  is                                                               
for these  devices, and  whether there  are units  available from                                                               
other state projects.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. FANDREI  responded that  the antennas are  a sturdy  piece of                                                               
equipment, certainly viable for longer  than the life of the lake                                                               
study.  Further, he stated  that equipment availability inquiries                                                               
have been made to ADF&G.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:28:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  asked what is  involved in setting  up the                                                               
detection  devices, and  whether the  labor and  logistical costs                                                               
are prohibitive.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FANDREI  explained  that  crews of  three  to  five  workers                                                               
construct  the weir,  and, primarily  for safety  reasons, a  two                                                               
person team mans it throughout the season.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:29:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  requested   information  on  the  budget                                                               
percentages regarding the equipment and salaries.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. FANDREI agreed  to forward the information  to the committee.                                                               
He  stated that  the  initial budget  outlays  are for  equipment                                                               
setup.   Once established, the budget  primarily covers salaries,                                                               
non-durable supplies, and remote  site logistical costs including                                                               
flight contracts.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:30:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  EGGERS,   Fisheries  Scientist,   Region  I,   Division  of                                                               
Commercial Fisheries,  Alaska Department of Fish  & Game (ADF&G),                                                               
said that he is not  directly involved with this project, however                                                               
he  is  familiar  with the  departments  operational  plans,  and                                                               
related activities from the 2006 season.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BOB  CLARK, Fisheries  Scientist,  Region II,  Division of  Sport                                                               
Fish,  Alaska  Department of  Fish  &  Game, (ADF&G),  identified                                                               
himself to the committee, and offered to respond to questions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JIM HASBROUCK, Fisheries Scientist,  Region II, Division of Sport                                                               
Fish,  Alaska  Department  of Fish  &  Game  (ADF&G),  identified                                                               
himself to the committee, and offered to respond to questions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:31:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON requested  that the ADF&G biologists  comment on the                                                               
collaborative effort,  involved in  the project,  as well  as the                                                               
different equipment and data collection methods utilized.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:32:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS  relayed that the  mark [tag] and capture  methods are                                                               
an effective means to obtain  useful escapement statistics on the                                                               
fish populations of large, complex  watersheds.  The same methods                                                               
are  used throughout  the  state.   He  explained the  logistical                                                               
relationship  between the  department's three  tagging locations,                                                               
and how the  fish tagged at Flat Horn are  recaptured at Sunshine                                                               
[Station] and Yentna.  This  "built in" redundancy factor is used                                                               
to establish  population escapement  estimates between  the three                                                               
marking  areas.   The upstream,  CIAA  weirs provide  additional,                                                               
important,  management  data.     During  the  2006  season,  tag                                                               
recovery data  was minimal, due  to the premature  dismantling of                                                               
the weirs, but, as previously  reported, future plans will remedy                                                               
this shortcoming.  The preliminary  data, he confirmed, indicates                                                               
a  larger  escapement than  ADF&G  had  previously been  able  to                                                               
assess  utilizing  sonar.    The final  data  analysis  is  still                                                               
undergoing stratification, however.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:35:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  addressed  the  Shell   Lake  return  estimate  of                                                               
[69,000], with  [one] tag recovered,  and asked how  a population                                                               
analysis can be compiled on this type of sampling.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS  ascertained that  the Larson  and Chelatna  Lake weir                                                               
sites  enumerated  a large  escapement,  and  recovered a  usable                                                               
percentage of  tags.  He  predicted that those data  will provide                                                               
confident  estimates.   As the  capability for  tag detection  is                                                               
improved,  a full  sampling from  each  weir site  will afford  a                                                               
better analysis.   Responding to  a question, he  described again                                                               
the tagging and detection process.   He added that the tag signal                                                               
is emitted constantly.  In locations  where a small weir is used,                                                               
a hand wand is  more effective.  The large run  at Shell Lake was                                                               
not anticipated, and  the hand wand was inadequate.   Further, he                                                               
stated  that  the weir  integrated  device  provides 100  percent                                                               
detection.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:39:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON queried what  information is provided by a                                                               
tag.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS responded that each  tag holds specific information on                                                               
an  individual   fish  including:     length,   other  biological                                                               
characteristics, and  where it was  tagged.  On request  of Chair                                                               
Seaton,  he described  the differences  of radio,  floy, and  PIT                                                               
tags.  He explained  how the range of the radio  tag allows it to                                                               
be detected  by a  remote riverside  tower, or  receiver equipped                                                               
aircraft.   The  disadvantages are  the cost,  approximately $200                                                               
each, and the heavy battery,  which may influence the behavior of                                                               
the fish.  The tag is  injected into the stomach cavity, with the                                                               
antennae  extending  from  the  fishes mouth.    The  battery  is                                                               
designed to outlast the final stage of  the life of the fish.  He                                                               
explained that  the PIT  tags are  the size of  a grain  of rice,                                                               
have  a smaller  battery, are  injected  into the  body or  cheek                                                               
cavity, are less  intrusive to the behavior of  the fish, require                                                               
less  handling  during insertion,  and  the  recovery process  is                                                               
easier and  faster.  Finally,  Mr. Eggers described the  floy tag                                                               
as  being similar  to a  piece of  spaghetti, pinned  through the                                                               
fish's dorsal  fin.  The floy  is a visually detected  tag.  Once                                                               
the streamer on the tag is  sighted, a technician must handle the                                                               
fish to read  the floy tag and  record the data.   These tags are                                                               
not used in this type of passive enumeration project.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:43:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired about  the reuse possibilities of                                                               
the  expensive  radio  tags.    Further,  he  suggested  that  an                                                               
entrepreneur  might create  a cottage  industry  of locating  and                                                               
returning the tags, if the department offered a reward.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS said  that whenever the tags are  recovered, or turned                                                               
in by fishermen,  the battery is replaced and the  tag reused.  A                                                               
reward system has not been  established, however.  In response to                                                               
an inquiry he  reiterated the unique fish data  contained on each                                                               
tag.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:46:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON established that the  weirs at Larson, Chelatna, and                                                               
Judd  Lakes each  had integrated  detection devices,  high return                                                               
counts,  and significant  tag recoveries.   This  contrasted with                                                               
Hewitt, Shell,  and Byers  Lakes, where  the tag  recoveries were                                                               
minimal to  none, and the  fish count,  save for Shell  Lake, was                                                               
also low.   He asked  how the variability  of the sample  and tag                                                               
recovery is being handled for analysis purposes.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS  reiterated that  the timing  for dismantling  some of                                                               
the  weirs  was premature,  and  acknowledged  the tag  detection                                                               
problems that occurred.  He  deferred to Mr. Dodson for follow-up                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:47:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  queried how  the timing  to man  the weirs                                                               
was determined.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON  restated how  the student  intern schedules  played a                                                               
key  role in  the 2006  season,  and how  other arrangements  are                                                               
being made for the subsequent seasons.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:49:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  if the  sockeye salmon  migrate to                                                               
these lakes on different schedules.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS responded that run timing  does vary.  Also, time must                                                               
be allowed for  the fish to migrate from the  tagging site to the                                                               
weirs.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:49:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  referred   to  the  coordination  effort                                                               
between  the downstream  tagging, and  the weir  enumeration, and                                                               
asked if  there was  appropriate collusion  to foster  success of                                                               
the tag recovery effort.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  EGGERS assured  the  committee that  the goal  is  to tag  a                                                               
representative   proportion  of   fish  in   the  run   with  the                                                               
expectation  that  the tag  recovery  will  allow an  appropriate                                                               
sampling  and adequate  data for  analysis.   The tagging  occurs                                                               
seven  days a  week, 24  hours a  day, during  the migration,  to                                                               
accomplish this task.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:51:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  clarified  that   the  ADF&G  effort  is                                                               
adequate and the CIAA aspect  needs further refinement to provide                                                               
the follow-up data for analysis.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS commented that the  population marking proportions are                                                               
monitored,  and  the  biases  are accounted  for,  in  the  final                                                               
analysis.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  stated that  he  would  like to  further                                                               
understand  the accuracy  of  the data  being  processed, and  he                                                               
asked if there  appears to be a correlation of  fish returning to                                                               
specific lakes in the system.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS stated that the  purpose for using the radio telemetry                                                               
devices,  is to  answer that  question.   These  radio tags  will                                                               
provide information  on the distribution  of fish  throughout the                                                               
Susitna system.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:53:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  stated that  it  is  his understanding,  from  the                                                               
initial study  proposal, that a  statistical confidence  would be                                                               
attained  by  tracking 500  radio  tags.    The number  has  been                                                               
adjusted to  100, or one fifth  of the scientific design,  and he                                                               
asked if that will effect the significance of the statistics.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:53:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HASBROUCK stated that he did  not recall a plan to deploy 500                                                               
radio tags in one year, but  rather over the course of the study.                                                               
He  opined that  this will  allow adequate  spawning distribution                                                               
information on the areas sockeye salmon.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked whether  each weir  should have  an automatic                                                               
antenna.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. EGGERS  stressed the  importance of  scanning each  fish, and                                                               
granted that an integrated device provides that opportunity.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  inquired if  ADF&G has the  ability to  provide the                                                               
needed devices, and whether $3,500 is the actual cost.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. DODSON  relayed that $2,500 is  the cost for the  antenna and                                                               
an additional  $1,000 is  for the solar  panel that  provides the                                                               
remote power supply.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:56:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HASBROUCK,  said that  the department  does not  have surplus                                                               
PIT  tag detectors,  but  he  opined that  the  purchase of  four                                                               
additional devices would be "doable."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  emphasized that the  committee is in  agreement for                                                               
the  CIAA   to  be  supplied  with   four  additional  integrated                                                               
detection devices.   He  stipulated that  the department  will be                                                               
prepared to account to this  committee, should the devices not be                                                               
made available.   He went on to ask what  proportion of the total                                                               
Susitna watershed system is being  surveyed by the study of these                                                               
seven lakes.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CLARK  relayed that the  radio telemetry aspect of  the three                                                               
year  study  is designed  to  answer  that  question.   To  Chair                                                               
Seaton's follow-up he  said that, when Stephan  Lake becomes part                                                               
of the survey,  the major sockeye salmon producing  lakes, of the                                                               
Susitna watershed, will be covered by the study.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:59:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FANDREI reported  how past studies have  estimated that these                                                               
seven  lakes  contribute  80-85 percent  of  the  sockeye  salmon                                                               
population produced  in the Susitna  River system.   Trinity Lake                                                               
and  the  adjoining  Movie  Lake have  been  documented  to  have                                                               
occasional substantial  sockeye salmon runs,  as well.   The CIAA                                                               
workers observe these  runs, when they are  conducting beaver dam                                                               
patrol and fish are backed up  behind the dams, en route to these                                                               
lakes.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:00:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  emphasized  the  need  to  purchase  the                                                               
relatively inexpensive  equipment; integrated  detection devices.                                                               
He  stressed the  need  for this  equipment  to insure  critical,                                                               
usable data.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  noted  that the  [weir  enumeration]  work,  being                                                               
undertaken by the  CIAA, has not been fully funded  by the state.                                                               
ADF&G  is not  doing the  weir  work.   Fish and  game have  been                                                               
allocated money for the tagging  aspect, but the tag recovery has                                                               
a $300,000 shortfall.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked where that appropriation "lives."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. FANDREI  responded that the  funds received have come  from a                                                               
specific   legislative  grant,   directly   to  the   aquaculture                                                               
association,  from  the  Department  of  Commerce,  Community,  &                                                               
Economic Development.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON opined  that funding $1,000,000 to tag  the fish and                                                               
not providing funds to recover the tags, is counter productive.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:03:49 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  asked  about  the  Susitna  watershed  beaver  dam                                                               
issues.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FANDREI  explained  that  the  CIAA has  run  a  program  to                                                               
regularly  survey  areas that  are  susceptible  to beaver  dams.                                                               
This has been  a chronic problem for a number  of years, and with                                                               
the last three  or four dry seasons it has  proven critical.  The                                                               
agency  workers will  locate and  "notch"  a dam,  but within  24                                                               
hours  the beavers  complete repairs.    The last  two years,  he                                                               
reported,  there  have  been   significant  mortalities  of  fish                                                               
downstream  of  these  dams,  due  to  the  low  water  and  high                                                               
temperature conditions.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON suggested  that the beaver dam issue may  need to be                                                               
reviewed by  ADF&G, and operational procedures  developed to help                                                               
remedy the situation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:06:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special  Committee on  Fisheries meeting  was adjourned  at 10:06                                                               
a.m.                                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects